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This rapturous view from my home is an unremitting wellspring of creative juice |
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"There are incalculable resources in the human spirit," Said Hubert H. Humphrey, "Once
it has been set
free."
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SPECIAL NOTE: Members of AWAI's,
Monthly Copywriting
Genius (MCG) pay a
substantial fee for
access to interviews,
and detailed project
how to-s, with the world's top
copywriters. This is
an abbreviated
(free) and edited version
of their interview
with me.
MCG:
What was
your job prior to
becoming a
copywriter?
PETER:
Prior to
writing - this time
around - I ran a
blue-collar (working
class) service company for eight
years. During the
last two years I was
there, I hung out my
shingle as a
freelance writer and
was booked solid
shortly thereafter.
So, I had two
full-time gigs
operating
concurrently for two
years, before I
decided to say
goodbye to the
company and write
copy exclusively.
But I've been a
writer for over 30
years. One of my very
first jobs was as a
freelance writer.
When I was 17 years
old, I wrote news
features for two
local newspapers -
400 words netted me
$25.00.
By the way, I’m
asking your readers
to be patient with
me, because instead
of reciting an
orderly sequence of
events, I’m going to
jump around on the
timeline lots.
MCG:
Did you
know what
copywriting or
direct response/mail
was… before you
became a copywriter?
PETER:
No, I
didn’t know. I
wasn’t aware of
‘copywriting’, as a
career, per se,
until my
mid-twenties. To me,
when I was growing
up, sales letters
would show up in the
mail and
occasionally one
would grab me.
I didn’t think of
the creative or
production behind
the letter. That
seems odd to me now
that I think about
it — because reading
a good sales letter
was a powerful
experience for me.
But then, reading
a good book doesn’t
necessarily evoke
thoughts about
writing a good book.
I just enjoy the
experience for what
it is. At face
value.
As far as
learning about
copywriting, when I
was in my
mid-twenties, I had
a roommate who was a
graphic designer and
she introduced me to
a friend of hers who
was an executive
vice president at
Grey Advertising.
Although he was
an EVP, if you had
stripped away his
title, his function
was as a creative
director/copywriter.
He defined
copywriting in ad
agency terms for me.
He really gave me my
start in writing
advertising. We
worked together,
later on. I’ll get
to that in a minute,
though.
MCG:
How did you
become a copywriter?
PETER:
Oh boy!
That was a
fragmented,
fractured and
graceless process,
for certain. After
writing news
features for several
years, I worked my
way into a job as
the circulation and
sales manager for a
start-up weekly
newspaper, The
Illinois Times.
I’m skipping from
my teens to my
twenties, here.
At any rate, I
wrote what amounted
to blurbs and short
promo pieces, lap
cards, inserts and
so on... marketing
materials intended
to develop the
circulation of the
paper. That, along
with a lot of leg
work, eventually
moved us into
position as the
largest weekly in
the state, outside
of Chicago. But
still, it was more
of a task than it
was a career
consideration. I
just did what had to
be done.
After I moved
here to Minneapolis
in the early ’80’s,
I really cut my
teeth on selling,
toe-to-toe. I had a
series of sales jobs
of various
descriptions. From
door-to-door to
selling over the
phone.
The whole deal
was unappealing, but
I did manage to pay
my rent. Truthfully,
it was invaluable
training for selling
in print.
An Invitation from
an Old Friend
Opens the Door to
Copywriting
MCG:
So how did
you go from
door-to-door selling
to copywriting?
PETER:
Eventually,
after I was ‘over’
selling
door-to-door,
writing found me
again. This time, it
came in through the
back door.
I answered a
classified ad that
appeared in the
local paper: “Grant
writer/fund raiser
for state-wide,
membership-based,
citizen’s lobby...”
Long story made
short, instead of
writing grant
proposals, I ended
up auditing the
organization and
discovered we were
worse than broke.
Not only that, but
as unbelievable as
it sounds, I found
22 bank accounts and
evidence of creative
financial
activities. I
decided to part
company with them.
I gave the
organization
meaningful financial
data, a functional
fiscal
infrastructure, a
recovery plan and
left with peace of mind for
me.
When the EVP from
Grey (I mentioned
him earlier) heard I
was leaving the
organization, he
called me and asked
if I would consider
going into
advertising.
We met that
evening and I made
my decision on the
spot, at the
restaurant.
On my last day, I
literally walked out
of the front door of
a grassroots
organization and
stepped into a
Mercedes convertible
and the world of
advertising.
Learning Copywriting
Is an Ongoing
Process
MCG:
Were you
self-trained or did
someone help you?
Did you have a
mentor?
PETER:
I didn’t
formally apprentice
with anyone.
I know what
you’re asking, but
learning this craft
is really an ongoing
process for me. I’m
a work in progress.
I never tire of
learning.
Just last week,
Gary Halbert called
me. As we talked, he
mentioned that Scott
Haines
was with him. A very
fine ad writer and
the former editor of
this publication.
Anyway, after
Gary introduced us
and talking for a few
minutes, Scott offered to
FedEx his course to
me. I just received
it a couple of hours
ago and I’m going to
go through the
entire thing.
MCG:
So how long have you
been writing copy?
PETER:
I just
turned 53 earlier
this month and
started writing for
money when I was 17.
MCG:
What was
the first success
you had as a
copywriter?
PETER:
That was
the newspaper, I
suppose. But, again,
I didn’t think of it
so much as success
as an official
copywriter. It was
just expected...
part of the larger
job of building the
paper’s circulation.
Every Project Is a
Learning Experience
MCG:
Is there
one project that
stands out as your
favorite?
PETER:
Which
clients should I
offend, today? (Ha,
ha!) I learn
something from each
and every project.
Each one has
redeeming qualities
and if the project
isn’t intrinsically
fun, I can always
find a way to make
it fun.
MCG:
How do you
drum up clients?
PETER:
I don’t...
much. The
very nice folks at Taipan Group, who
introduced you to
me, found me through
my website.
The same is true
for several
corporate clients.
Likewise with the
owner of an
alternative health
(supplement) company
who wants a back-end
series of letters.
A New Twist on Using
Testimonials
MCG:
So how do
clients find you?
PETER:
What’s key
to the success of my
marketing, is that I
never market into
the pack. For
example, nearly
everyone else
appropriately uses
testimonials from
clients who’ve
experienced results.
I use those, too,
but instead of a ‘me
too’ approach, many
marketing managers,
and many
entrepreneurs who
mail, will recognize
my primary
testimonials and
endorsements from
industry legends.
I let Gary
Bencivenga, John
Carlton, Gary
Halbert, Michel
Fortin, Clayton
Makepeace and
others, tell you
exactly why they put
me on their
“A-List”. Rather
than coming from me,
or exclusively from
clients, the
Copywriter’s
Copywriter moniker
is dimensional and
credible coming from
legends of the
industry and
‘stars’.
One of my clients
is on the Forbes
list of the largest
20 corporations in
the world. That
single fact adds
another stamp of
credibility to my
brand.
Referrals and
reputation count for
a lot in this
business, too.
Aside from my
website, I don’t do
much marketing. I
can only book a
limited number of
projects and I guess
I’m fortunate in
that clients seek me
out.
I received bid
requests totaling
over six-figures
last week. I know
that sounds absurd,
at first - over
six-figures in a
week - but, if
you’ll do the math,
I’m sure you’ll find
it’s a realistic
number. True, some
of those won’t be
acceptable to me,
but then, there’s
always next week.
MCG:
What do you
like most about
copywriting?
PETER:
Complete,
unmitigated
autonomy.
It’s not quite
true, but I like to
think my business
fits comfortably on
my laptop.
I’m in an early
phase of considering
a little winter
hideaway in Mexico.
While I can
appreciate the
calligraphic beauty
of Minnesota’s
winter landscape, I
think I would enjoy
the below-zero
degree, biting-cold
scene more from a
quiet beach, holding
a laptop equipped
with a wireless
high-speed satellite
hooked-up to the
Internet, and from
fond memories.
But back to
reality... I love
selling and I love
writing. Period. So
I’m forever grateful
to the business,
really. I honestly
feel privileged and
fortunate I’m in
this business.
A Conversation Gets
the Whole Thing
Started…
MCG:
What’s the
first thing you do
when you get an
assignment (study
old controls,
research the subject
matter, talk with
the editor)?
PETER:
Well...
hmm... I like to
kick-off my research
by recording the
first conversation
with the editor,
business owner,
marketing manager,
publisher - whomever
I’m dealing with.
They’re usually very
knowledgeable and
insightful.
I find, more
often than not, when
the conversation is
over, the heartbeat
of my promo is
there, in the
conversation. If I
can, I’ll record a
salesperson
delivering their
pitch. Sometimes
corporate policy
doesn’t allow for
recording, though...
If I’m selling a
hard-goods product -
a supplement, for
example - I’ll begin
taking the
supplement
immediately. I want
to experience the
product, first hand,
as a customer would.
Beyond this
point, I ask for
past promotions,
ads, catalogs,
articles, white
papers, past issues
in the case of a
recurring
publication – any
sales and
marketing-oriented
communication,
internal or external
to the company.
I want to bypass
the risk of anyone
using their
discretion and
erroneously deciding
what is or isn’t
important or
relevant to the
mission.
MCG:
I think
that’s an excellent
point. Beyond that…
you must do some
research, correct?
PETER:
Overall my
process isn’t
formal. It’s messy.
I start by doing
everything at once;
researching the
product and the
audience at the same
time. This may not
work for everyone,
but usually within a
couple of hours,
I’ll find a jump-off
point. Something
will catch my
attention and I’ll
just ride with that.
Speaking With the
Prospect Offers the
Best Insight
MCG:
How do you
get to know the
target audience?
PETER:
The closer
I can get to
speaking with them,
the better.
MCG:
How do you
come up with the
theme or idea for
the promotion?
PETER:
That’s
always in relation
to the market’s
cluster of deeper
emotions and
associated needs.
Deeper than surface
level.
MCG:
Do you
develop the headline
first or start with
the body copy?
PETER:
Almost
always the headline.
At some point in my
initial research, a
headline will occur
to me. It might be a
placeholder - a
place to hang my
hat, so to speak -
but I’ll write it
down.
I find doing that
somehow helps me get
the structure of the
piece started.
It’s Best to Let
Your Copy Sleep
MCG:
After you
finish a draft… do
you let it rest for
a day or so and then
re-read and make
edits?
PETER:
Well... I’m
known for the
saying, “Write
fearlessly, edit
ruthlessly”.
Letting copy
‘steep’ is always a
good idea, I find.
And yes, I edit and
re-edit a lot.
Overall, I edit for
diction, clarity and
simplicity of
expression. Then
I’ll add freshness,
fun and force where
appropriate. All of
this boils down to
an attempt at making
the act of reading
less challenging and
more entertaining
for the prospects.
The act of
reading should be
its own reward – a
big experience for
the reader.
And for
copy/sales strategy…
as I’m sure you
know, every section
of a sales letter
plays an important
role in advancing
the sale... every
element and section
of copy is there for
one overall reason.
Its purpose is to
advance the sale.
MCG:
Do you ever
show your copy to
another copywriter
for comments and
suggestions?
PETER:
Whenever
I’ve done it, it’s
been a very
productive
experience, but the
real answer is no. I
should, regularly,
but it’s just not
usually practical
for me. I’m big on
client
confidentiality.
My assistant,
Sarah, is very
perceptive and
intuitive. Not to
mention, she’s got
an advanced degree
in English.
MCG:
How do you
know when the copy
is done and you can
submit it to the
client?
PETER:
See... this
doesn’t usually take
much thought at all,
for me. I know what
a good pitch sounds
like and feels like
on a granular level.
Perhaps that’s from
selling
nose-to-nose.
His Talents Cross
Many Clients
MCG:
Do you
specialize in
writing for certain
products? If so,
which ones?
PETER:
Really,
it’s all over the
board.
I’ve written a
lot for the online
biz-op market and
for pet-related
products. But, right
now, I’m writing a
lead-gen piece for
medical diagnostic
equipment. Another
is a Web promo on
behalf of a lawyer
to people seeking
legal help. Last
week, I finished an
Internet-based
promotion for a
piece of software,
aimed at the biz-op
market and so on.
MCG:
How would
you characterize
your style of
writing (great at
creating a
conversational tone,
strong on offer,
etc)
PETER:
At the risk
of coming off as an
egghead, I think
you’re asking about
what’s become known
as the AWAI/MCG
conversational tone.
Yes, that’s one tone
I use.
Beyond diction
and depending on the
product and the
market, I go for
precise writing
-clearly and
economically
expressed ideas.
And I create as
strong an offer as
I’m allowed.
I’m often
evangelical and
frequently build my
close using logic
that explodes into
an emotional plea.
The effect
juxtaposing the two
can create pretty
dramatic effect.
An Advocate of
Testing Your Way to
Success
MCG:
Do you make
suggestions on what
things the client
could test on your
package… such as
alternative
headlines, lead or
offer?
PETER:
Keep in
mind; I’m
credentialed as a
computer systems
engineer, so I may
offer a different
perspective from
others on this
subject in the form
of rigorous and
maybe rigid testing
protocol I’ve found
to dependably render
results.
But yes, online
or offline, I’ll
offer alternatives
(additional
variables) for
testing. Online and
in order they are:
price, offer, and
headline, lead,
other.
Creating an
“Air-Tight” Sales
Argument
MCG:
How
involved are you in
the design?
PETER:
I’ll work
up a ‘strongly
suggested’ and
detailed design,
usually. Remember,
your letter is a
puzzle. This
supports that.
Personally,
because I haven’t
developed skills as
a designer, it’s
most practical for
me to regard design
as the order and
assembly of that
puzzle. I supply the
elements and their
geographic
locations... enough
to create a rough
out.
If I were writing
for an antacid, I’d
put the testimonial
that says: “...no
more ulcers” in
position to support
the portion of the
copy that explains
why and how the
product promotes
healing, once the
source of your ulcer
is addressed.
And isn’t that a
great place to
represent findings
from clinical
studies in the form
of a chart? Strong
relevant sub-head...
directly applicable
statements from a
medical doctor?
And doesn’t this
combination of
elements, pulled
together using
design, forcefully
drive a single,
unified message?
This is how you put
together an airtight
sales argument.
By saying
something in your
copy, proving it in
your copy and then
barraging and
overwhelming your
reader’s critical
thinking and
skepticism with
parallel messages
and offering proof
in other forms.
Tell the truth,
the whole truth and
nothing but the
truth from many
angles, about
superior products,
tender an
extraordinary offer
and the deck will be
stacked in your
favor.
Are Online and DM
Customers the Same?
MCG:
Do you
think there is a
difference between
online prospects and
direct mail
prospects?
PETER:
Yes and no.
I think prospects
are pretty much the
same online and
offline. But the
media are different
and you need to
account for that
difference by tuning
each type of
promotion a bit
differently from the
other.
In general, there
are a number of
influences and
challenges online we
don’t face offline.
MCG:
Can you
give us an example?
PETER:
To use one
illustration, let’s
assume you’re
interested in weight
loss. If you use
Google to search for
a weight-loss aid,
you might end up
with a multitude of
pitches (glut of
competition)
delivered to you in
less than a second.
You can choose to
read as many as you
like, then price
shop.
In this case, you
might be able to
save a good
promotion for a
superior product by
offering free
information. If it’s
a likable book
you’re selling, try
giving away three
chapters free (free
sample/involvement
device).
Also I’ve found
behavioral
differences based on
demographics. As an
example, sometimes
clients think an
older audience is
technologically
challenged and
therefore won’t
order online.
Statistically,
that’s an inaccurate
assumption and could
lead to the
erroneous conclusion
that an older
audience 'can't'
order online.
However, older
readerships WILL
likely resist
ordering online, but
because of trust
issues, not usually
because they don’t
know how to order or
are afraid of
technology itself.
Not because they’re
technologically
challenged.
The importance of
this distinction can
be worth a lot of
money to someone
who’s savvy enough
to address the real
issue of trust.
Additional or
integrated sales,
marketing and
ordering channels
can translate into
many additional
sales.
Plus it’s
possible you can
dramatically reduce
your aggregate cost
per sale by using a
combination of
media, provided
you’re willing to
sufficiently
address, in our case
at hand, the trust
issues of an older
buying population.
I suppose it all
comes back to
offering people what
they want. In this
instance, rather
than more or
different products,
they want
transactional safety
and security.
What’s it like to
work with you on a
project?
PETER:
I try to
line everything up
so there are no
surprises for anyone
involved, before
I’ll accept a
project.
Each of us have
certain criteria we
must hit in order to
keep a sound
business model
intact. I’m not
going to recreate my
policies and
procedures — ad hoc
— depending on who
or what offer is at
the door.
I’m predisposed
to like my clients,
rather than set up
an antagonistic
relationship with
them. Maybe that’s
being flexible.
And no, I’m not a
copy diva. I’m firm,
calm and resolved,
not at all prone to
conniption, if
that’s what you
mean.
Look, business
isn’t a thrill ride.
A lot of money and
reputation are
always on the line.
Everyone knows this.
Becoming uptight
doesn’t help to
advance anyone or
anything. Being fun
invites creative
solutions and
cooperation.
Some copywriters
will tell you that
clients suck.
Well... that’s
luxurious and
sometimes gleans
admiration for the
worldliness it
reflects, but now
what? Get over it!
Some unsolicited
advice to writers:
Save the sensitive,
anxiety-ridden and
difficult
personality for the
novel and just do
your job well.
Take command over
and use your anxiety
constructively — an
enormous resource to
draw from — to
aggressively attack
your research and to
write with power,
speed and precision.
MCG:
If you
could choose another
career besides
copywriting, what
would that be and
why?
PETER:
I can. If I
had to...
You know what
they say about good
writers being
insatiably
curious... I’ve got
a lot of
credentials. I can
legally practice as
a psychotherapist,
as an example, and I
keep my credentials
as a computer
systems engineer
current.
www.PeterStoneCopy.com
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